1.
William Carpenter
Gene Zubrinsky’s original notes (ca. 2000), different venue from the later Carpenter Sketches, received August 2018:
WILLIAM1 CARPENTER_ born ca 1575 (age 40 in 1614; 62 in May 1638) place unknown
died prob bet. 1638 & 1643 place prob Weymouth or Rehoboth and (possible) spouse
ALICE --_______________ born _unknown_____ place _unknown_________
died (bur.) 25 Jan 1637[/8] place _Shalbourne, Wiltshire/Berkshire, England___
married _by ca. 1605_________ place _unknown___________________________
List proof: Survey of Shalbourne Westcourt (c1610-1639/40), 7, Savernake Estate Collection, ref.
9/24/460, Wiltshire and Swindon Archives; [Drake], “Founders of New England,” NEHGR 14:336;
TAG 70:195n13 (W1C death data); Shalbourne Parish Recs. (Bishop’s Transcr.), Bundle 1, Wiltshire
and Swindon Archives (Alice Carpenter bur rec [W1C emigrated three months later]). See also
http://carpentercousins.com/Wm1_Shalbourne.pdf.
14a. The said (no. 13a, line 2) __WILLIAM1 CARPENTER_____________ was the child of
UNKNOWN (Robert of Marden unproved) born ____________ place ___________
died ______________ place __________________________ and (1st or ) spouse
6
UNKNOWN________________ born ______________ place __________________
died ______________ place ____________________________________________
married ______________________ place _________________________________
List proof: No evidence that W1C, of Shalbourne by 1608, was son William named in will of Robert
Carpenter of Marden (see no. 14, proof section, above).
Notes below by Eugene Cole Zubrinsky
Ojai, California, 2009
[Derived from one of twelve fully formatted sketches of early Carpenters, these notes contain the most-authoritative information available as of January 2009. The sketches may be viewed in the "Gene Zubrinsky" folder of the CE 2009 and also online at . (The online version will be updated when appropriate; check the revision date.) **Where other information herein conflicts with Zubrinsky's notes, his notes take precedence.**]
WILLIAM1 CARPENTER was born in England about 1575 and was still living a few days before 2 May 1638; he died probably at Weymouth, Massachusetts Bay Colony, or Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony (see BIRTH, DEATH, MARRIAGE, IMMIGRATION, and RESIDENCES sections, below; TAG 70:193-94, 203). [While the foregoing genealogical data is presented in _Register_ style, the embedding, grouping, and severe abbreviating of source citations are conveniences that depart from it. Sources are cited in full in KEY TO SOURCES, at the end of these notes. The format below is patterned loosely after that used by Robert Charles Anderson in his _Great Migration_ series.]
BIRTH: William1 was of Newtown, Shalbourne Parish, Wiltshire, England, by 1608, when he became a copyholder (semipermanent leaseholder) at Westcourt Manor (Westcourt Recs 7). Shalbourne, completely in Wiltshire since 1895, previously straddled the line separating Wiltshire and Berkshire, with Westcourt comprising the Wiltshire part of the parish (Shalbourne Map); the Hampshire border was/is about four miles away. It is likely that William was born in one of these three counties.
The record of William's renewal of his Westcourt tenancy on 22 June 1614 gives his age as 40 (Westcourt Recs 7). The passenger list of the _Bevis_, the ship on which he left England, is dated 2 May 1638 and states William's age as 62 (NEHGR 14:336; TAG 70:193, 203; see also IMMIGRATION, below). From these facts is calculated a birth year of about 1575. A William Carpenter was baptized in the parish of Great Coxwell, Berkshire (now in Oxfordshire), on 5 May 1576, son of Henry Carpenter (GCPaR). Evidence that this is more than coincidence has not been found. But since Great Coxwell is only twenty map miles due north of Shalbourne, further research in the vicinity of the former place is warranted.
DEATH: The latest known record of William1 is the aforementioned _Bevis_ passenger-list entry of 2 May 1638. His namesake son, William2 Carpenter, settled at Weymouth probably in 1638 and certainly before 13 May 1640, when he was admitted a freeman there. That William1 was not made a freeman at the same time was perhaps because he had died. It might, on the other hand, have been due to his modest station, when considered apart from that of his son (see TAG 14:336, 70:193, 195n13; EDUCATION/OFFICES, below).
MARRIAGE: Despite claims to the contrary, the identity of William1's wife (or wives) is unknown. His having emigrated only three months after the death of Alice Carpenter, who was buried at Shalbourne on 25 January 1637[/8], suggests that she had been his wife (though not necessarily William2's mother); it is possible, however, that she was an unmarried sister or daughter (TAG 70:194-95).
A William Carpenter married at St. Thomas the Martyr, Salisbury, Wiltshire, 18 April 1605, Mary "Bath" (not Batt, as per various informal sources) (WiltPaR 5:22). Christopher Batt, a tanner of [New] Sarum (i.e., Salisbury), Wiltshire, was one of the Carpenters' fellow passengers on the _Bevis_. Records of the Batt family of Salisbury, however, indicate that he and a Mary Batt of appropriate age (baptized at St. Thomas 7 Aug. 1584, daughter of Richard and Agnes (Danyell) Batt) "would be no more than distant cousins" (NEHGR 14:336; Martin, citing NEHGR 51:181-88, 348-57, 52:44-51, 321-22). It has not been established that William1 Carpenter was the man of that name who married Mary Bath.
IMMIGRATION: William1, with son William2 and the latter's family, embarked at Southampton, Hampshire, on the _Bevis_. The preamble to the ship's passenger list indicates that by 2 May 1638 "they [had been] some Dayes gone to sea" (NEHGR 14:336). They landed probably at Boston (the point of all but a handful of Bay Colony arrivals) in July 1638 (the average ocean crossing took eight to ten weeks).
RESIDENCES: He was living at Newtown by 1 June 1608 and until at least about 18 September 13 Charles [1637]; on the latter date a new family assumed tenancy of the parcels previously leased by the Carpenters (Westcourt Recs 7). The last Carpenter record at Shalbourne is that of Alice Carpenter's burial, in 1637/8 (see MARRIAGE, above). Although her place in the Carpenter family is uncertain, we may be fairly confident that the others were present in or near Shalbourne at this time (TAG 70:194-95).
Amos B. Carpenter's claim that William1 (whom he inappropriately numbers as William2) resided in London prior to emigrating is completely baseless (see Carpenter [1898] 34, 38). As above, William was at Shalbourne by 1608. In 2004, John R. Carpenter of La Mesa, California, requested a search by Guildhall Library, London, of that city's Carpenters' Company freemen's lists (begun in the sixteenth century) and of various catalogs; no reference to a William Carpenter was found.
Despite the _Bevis_ passenger list's description of William1 (and son William2) as "of Horwell"--that is, Wherwell, Hampshire (about 15 air miles south-southeast of Shalbourne)--the aforementioned Shalbourne records make it clear that he was at the former place no more than a few months, perhaps only a day or two (see William2 of Rehoboth notes, RESIDENCES).
Apparently based solely on the absence of any record of William1 in Massachusetts, Amos Carpenter claims that William1 returned to England on the ship that brought him (see Carpenter [1898] 38). There is no evidence of this, however, and no reason to suppose it. His having endured the rigors of the voyage to Massachusetts (assuming he completed it), it is doubtful that William1, an old man by the conditions and standards of the time, would have opted to face, unaccompanied, the physical demands of a return trip. And to what would he have returned? William2 was his eldest (perhaps only) son and heir. (This we infer from the inclusion of William Carpenter Jr. with his father in the Westcourt Manor _copy court roll_ beginning with the initial record of their tenancy.) Where better for this father and grandfather to spend his last years than in the company of those with whom he had come? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence: considering his age (advanced), marital status (single), and position in his family (almost certainly subordinate to his son), it is not significant that William1 fails to appear in Massachusetts records as a freeholder or town officer, for example. And with deaths at this time being the vital event least-often recorded, it is unremarkable that no such record is found for him. (Also unrecorded is the birth, probably in late 1638, of his grandson Samuel3.)
OCCUPATION: The _Bevis_ passenger list describes William1 as a carpenter (NEHGR 14:336). That his copyhold included not only a messuage (house and adjoining land) with a garden but also a small number of acres in nearby common fields indicates that he was also a husbandman (subsistence farmer) (see Westcourt 7; "Recommended Reading," GMN 16, no. 3).
EDUCATION/OFFICES: William "Crpentr," church warden, signed with his mark a _glebe terrier_ (describing lands belonging to the Shalbourne vicarage) dated 6 June 1628 (SVGT). William2's obvious literacy excludes him from consideration as the subscriber (see William2 of Rehoboth notes, EDUCATION). The only other man of that name found in Shalbourne records is William1.
CHILDREN: The only known child of William1 Carpenter is the son named with him in his record of tenancy at Shalbourne Westcourt and with whom he emigrated: the eventual William2 Carpenter of Rehoboth (Westcourt Recs 7; NEHGR 14:336; see also William2 of Rehoboth notes). The CE 2009 main data file's attribution to William1 of additional children, through alleged wife Mary "Batt" (see MARRIAGE, above), is baseless.
COMMENTS: The will of Robert Carpenter of Marden, Wiltshire, dated 12 January 1606[/7?] and proved 21 May 1607, names (among others) adult sons William and Richard. It has been claimed that these brothers were William1 Carpenter (father of William2 of Rehoboth) and Richard Carpenter of Amesbury, Wiltshire (father of William1 of Providence, R.I.). While it is not impossible that William1 of Shalbourne was the son of Robert of Marden, evidence of it has not been found; it is unlikely that Richard of Amesbury was Robert's son. Genetic testing of agnate descendants of William of Shalbourne and Richard of Amesbury has established with a high degree of probability that the two were in fact related but far more remotely than generally believed. For more-detailed discussions of these matters, see NEHGR 159 (2005):64-66, 67n63; William2 of Rehoboth notes, COMMENTS.
In _Carpenters' Encyclopedia of Carpenters 2001_ (CECD 2001), compiler John R. Carpenter presents an extensive ancestry for the subject William1 Carpenter and Richard Carpenter of Amesbury, beginning with the aforementioned Robert Carpenter of Marden and his widow, Elinor, as their parents. Most of this ancestry--back from Rev. Richard Carpenter of Herefordshire and Wiltshire (d. 1503)--has been proven invalid; as above, the remainder is unsubstantiated and, particularly for the Amesbury man, dubious. Earlier versions of this ancestry, which differ from it for the first few generations (beginning with parents), are even more improbable than the CECD 2001 version (see, for example, Carpenter [1898] 1, 34). THE ANCESTRY OF WILLIAM1 CARPENTER, INCLUDING HIS PARENTAGE, IS UNKNOWN (AS IS THAT OF RICHARD OF AMESBURY).
Amos Carpenter, the first to assert that Richard of Amesbury was William1's brother, further claims that Alexander Carpenter of Wrington, Somersetshire, and Leiden, Netherlands, was another brother (Carpenter [1898] 34). There is absolutely no support for this.
A Robert Carpenter was among those who took the estate inventory of William Shefford of Shalbourne in 1609 (Shefford Inv). Although it seems reasonable to suppose that he is related to William1 (perhaps a brother [born by 1688]), evidence linking them has not been found. _Robert_ is not a Rehoboth Carpenter forename.
A Web article states that "[s]urviving records from Culham Manor of the late 1500s to the early 1600s . . . show a William Carpenter senior and his son William Carpenter junior, who emigrated to Weymouth, Massachusetts, in 1638 and helped found Rehoboth, Massachusetts, in 1645" (Wikipedia1). A related Web piece presents a few more details::"A search of _Westcourt Manor Records_ [sic] reveals William Carpenter Sr. as a resident of Shalbourne and [more specifically] Westcourt Manor from 1608. Manor records from Culham, Oxfordshire, contain various references to a father-son William Carpenter whose activities conform to Shalbourne records. . . . William Carpenter Sr. served as an Assessor or [sic] Fines in the Culham Manor Court. Many pages of Latin documents record Carpenter family activities and are now in the Bodleian Library at Oxford. This William Carpenter Sr. educated his eldest son Robert at Oxford for the church. Many of what were perhaps Robert Carpenter's books made there [sic] way to Massachusetts in the possession of Carpenter's son William Carpenter Jr. (b. 1605)" (Wikipedia2).
These speculative passages reflect one of the most common types of error in genealogy: "right name, wrong man," the merging of different persons of the same name into a single identity; in this case, four are reduced to two. The vague, unsourced statement that the "activities" of a father-and-son pair of William Carpenters at Culham "conform to Shalbourne records" is presumably intended to express that the overall chronology is internally consistent. Even if true (one cannot judge from the limited data provided), this falls far short of genealogical proof. An earlier version of the latter article depicts William Carpenter Sr. of Culham as a scribe and the Latin records as being in his hand. This, of course, is at odds with the subject William's inability to write his name (see EDUCATION/OFFICES, above). In the article's current rendition, the Culham scribe has become assessor of fines (an office not so obviously requiring literacy), and the Latin records are no longer said to be in his hand but instead reveal "family activities." This fallback position, like its predecessor, is woefully lacking in detail, supporting evidence, and source citations. It also continues to ignore that a Shalbourne carpenter/husbandman was in no position to have sent a son to Oxford. There is, moreover, no evidence that the Robert Carpenter recorded at Shalbourne in 1609 was a clergyman; in any case, he was too old to have been William1's son (see prev. par.). There is at present no basis for concluding that the Shalbourne Carpenters are connected in any way to those of Culham.
HISTORICAL BACKGROUND: See, for example, Virginia DeJohn Anderson, _New England's Generation: The Great Migration and the Formation of Society and Culture in the Seventeenth Century_ (New York, 1991; repr. 1992 [paperback]); Francis J. Bremer, _The Puritan Experiment: New England Society from Bradford to Edwards_, rev. ed. (Lebanon, N.H., 1995 [paperback]); John Chandler, _Marlborough and Eastern Wiltshire_ (Salisbury, England, 2001), and "Shalbourne Concise History," online at , a Wiltshire County Council - Wiltshire Community History webpage; Shalbourne History Project, _Shalbourne to the Millennium_ (Shalbourne, England, 1999); Stephen Foster, _The Long Argument: English Puritanism and the Shaping of New England Culture, 1570-1700_ (Chapel Hill, N.C., 1991; repr. 1996 [paperback]; Hugh Trevor-Roper, _Archbishop Laud: 1573-1645_ (London, 1940; repr. 2000 [paperback]); Keith Wrightson and David Levine, _Poverty and Piety in an English Village: Terling, 1525-1700_, 2nd ed. (Oxford, England, 1995 [paperback]).
KEY TO SOURCES:
Carpenter [1898]: Amos B. Carpenter, _A Genealogical History of the Rehoboth Branch of the Carpenter Family in America_ [informal title: _Carpenter Memorial_] (Amherst, Mass., 1898)
GCPaR: Great Coxwell Parish Records (not paginated) [Family History Library (FHL), Salt Lake City, film #88,267]
GMN: _Great Migration Newsletter_, online at (subscription website; printed issues available)
Martin: David Kendall Martin, FASG, letter to Gene Zubrinsky, 16 March 1998
NEHGR: _The New England Historical and Genealogical Register_, vol. 1 (1847) through present
Shalbourne Map: Shalbourne Parish, from _Andrews and Dury's Map of Wiltshire, 1810_, online at , a Wiltshire County Council - Wiltshire Community History webpage
Shefford Inv: William Shefford estate inventory, facsimile online at , a Wiltshire County Council - Wiltshire Archive Catalogue webpage; abstract online at , a GENUKI: UK & Ireland Genealogy website maintained by Nick Hidden (1998)
SVGT: Shalbourne Vicarage Glebe Terrier, ref. D/5/10/2/8, Wiltshire and Swindon Archives, Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre, Chippenham (formerly Wiltshire and Swindon Record Office, Trowbridge), England
TAG: _The American Genealogist_, vol. 9 (1932) through present
Westcourt Recs: Survey of Shalbourne Westcourt (c1610-1639/40), Savernake Estate Collection, ref. 9/24/460, Wiltshire and Swindon Archives
Wikipedia1: Wikipedia contributors, "Culham," _Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia_, online at (accessed 12/21/2008)
Wikipedia2: Wikipedia contributors, "Rehoboth Carpenter Family," _Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia_, online at (accessed 12/21/2008); the earlier version mentioned in the text, above, is dated 5/23/07 (for all old revisions, click on History tab)
WiltPaR: _Wiltshire Parish Registers. Marriages_, vol. 5, ed. W. P. W. Phillimore, Edmund Nevill, and John Sadler (London, 1907) [FHL film #496,691, item 4]
[Gene Zubrinsky's notes end here.]
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
OLD NOTES: The following notes consist of previously compiled data, some of which is incorrect. They are retained so that the reader may identify specific items contained in them that he or she might have thought worthy of inclusion in Gene Zubrinsky's notes (above) and will know that they were deliberately omitted for being erroneous or extraneous. For PAF and GEDCOM data files containing only his notes, see the "Gene Zubrinsky" folder of the CE 2009.
CHR: The following is placed here as the closest likely age/location to this person. No proof given any connection.
Name: William Carpenter
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 01 May 1571
Christening Place: SAINT THOMAS, SALISBURY, WILTSHIRE, ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C15348-1
System Origin: England-VR
GS Film number: 1279310
Reference ID: 2:1Q07LJW
Citing this Record:
"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NBGN-S52 : accessed 14 June 2015), William Carpenter, 01 May 1571; citing Salisbury, Wiltshire, England, reference 2:1Q07LJW; FHL microfilm 1,279,310.
SEE ALSO:
Name: William Carpenter
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 01 May 1571
Christening Place: Saint Thomas, Salisbury, Wiltshire, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C15348-1
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1279310
Reference ID: item 3
Citing this Record:
"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NDB2-FLD : accessed 14 June 2015), William Carpenter, 01 May 1571; citing Salisbury, Wiltshire, England, reference item 3; FHL microfilm 1,279,310.
MARRIAGE: 1624 - See cautions!
... The Alice Carpenter buried in Shalbourne on 25 January 1637[/8] might have been William1’s wife but also might have been an unmarried sister or daughter. Many people have ignored the qualifying language and present Alice as William1’s wife.
England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription
First name(s)
Willm
Last name
Carpenter
Name note -
Marriage year
1624
Marriage date
28 Feb 1624
Marriage place
Sunningwell <----------------------
Spouse's first name(s)
Alyce
Spouse's last name
Eltvn
County
Berkshire
Country
England
Record set
England Marriages 1538-1973
Category
Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory
Marriages & divorces
Collections from
United Kingdom
Index (c) IRI. Used by permission of FamilySearch Intl
SEE ALSO:
It’s not possible to say for certain that this isn't William1 and a second wife, but the odds are against it: First, we don’t know that the Alice buried in Shalbourne in 1637/8 was in fact William1’s wife. Second, the distance from Shalbourne to Sunningwell is about 35 miles, not disqualifying but leaning in that direction. And third, for this Alice to have been William1’s second wife, there had to have been a first wife who died, and there’s no record of it. In 1604, William Carpenter and Alice Swithen married at Warminster; the year works with William2’s estimated birth year, but the distance, 38–40 miles from Shalbourne, is a problem. Gene.
LOCATION:
Shalbourne
Shalbourne was first recorded in the tenth century charters as 'Scaldeburnam', comprised of the Anglo-Saxon word 'scealde burna' meaning shallow bourne or shallow stream. The name Shalburne was first used c.1494. It is a linear village on the A338 and originally consisted of three tithings, Shalbourne, Bagshot to the north and Oxenwood to the south. Both Bagshot and Oxenwood were originally located in Berkshire and transferred to Wiltshire in 1895. Most of Shalbourne village itself has always been located in Wiltshire except for the vicarage, church and mill. The boundary of Wiltshire with Berkshire was less clear here than in the rest of Wiltshire, which tended to follow natural features. Reasons for this could be related to the tenure of the land. ...
The village follows the line of the brook and the valley, with farms scattered near Bagshot, Oxenwood, and Rivar. The mill is situated north of the village and is referred to in the Domesday Book. The land is fertile and supported a number of farms making agriculture of prime importance in the area. ...
Two linear villages either side of the county boundary developed, the Wiltshire side arranged north south along the main street, forking at each end and known as West Shalbourne or Westcourt and the Berkshire side known as East Shalbourne or Eastcourt, hugging the lane leading southwards from the mill. Westcourt contained Manor Farm, a triangular green, with the Plough public house, a shop and a Bible School, dating from 1843, which was used as a Wesleyan Chapel and a village hall. Further development continued along Rivar Road, to the 'Lynch' used for rope making. East Shalbourne or Eastcourt, in Berkshire, followed the lane leading south from the mill and then turning towards Ham. This is where the church is situated on the western side of the road. Oxenwood, a small hamlet, in the ecclesiastical parish of Tidcombe and Fosbury, once had a manor house in an area known as 'Chapel', first mentioned in 1586. It was destroyed by fire and the occupants moved to Manor Farm in Shalbourne.
...
Shalbourne Manor was originally held by Edward the Confessor and King William in 1086. Known as 'Eastcourt' it was passed on by Robert de Tatteshall c.1241 on the marriage of his daughter and was then known as 'Tateshale'. Through family succession it was owned by Ralph Lord Cromwell, Treasurer of England by 1454, sold by Thomas Frowyck in 1473, and then Sir Thomas Cheney in 1548, and then owned by Edward Duke of Somerset. It stayed in this family until the niece of the fourth Duke inherited it and married the Earl of Ailesbury, it then descended with them until a large amount of the estate was sold off in 1929. Land in Oxenwood was sold to Richard de Havering by King William and other land was held by the Danvers family. The manor was owned by the Earl of Hertford and it descended with the title of the Duke of Somerset. Bagshot was owned at Domesday by Henry de Ferrers and it descended with the manor of South Standen but was retained in 1867 by the Mitchell family and eventually sold to Albert Munz.The greatest part of the Wiltshire portion was held in 1086 by Richard Sturmy, and referred to as Westcourt or Shalbourne Dormer. A part share passed through various heirs becoming part of the Duke of Somerset's estate by 1548 and then descending with Eastcourt. The remainder sold to William Castell in 1590 and then to the Earl of Hertford. Shalbourne was essentially an estate village until the 20th century so the most important ancient buildings are the church, Manor Farmhouse and Westcourt Farmhouse.
http://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/community/getcom.php?id=199
SEE ALSO:
It is uncertain whether Henry inherited this manor or whether it passed to his brother Sir Thomas Frowyk, serjeant-at-law and chief justice of the Common Pleas. (fn. 40) The latter died seised of it in 1506, leaving it to his wife Elizabeth for life, with remainder to his daughter Frideswide. (fn. 41) Elizabeth took as her second husband Thomas Jakys, who died in 1514, and she died about a year later. Frideswide married Sir Thomas Cheney, K.G. (fn. 42) Sir Thomas, who was Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports, sold the manor of Eastcourt in 1548 to Edward Duke of Somerset, (fn. 43) subject to the life interest of Nicholas Cripps and his wife Frances, one of Sir Thomas's daughters. (fn. 44) Frances died in 1561 and Nicholas in 1564. (fn. 45)
The Duke of Somerset was attained and executed in 1552, (fn. 46) but this manor was granted in 1581–2 to his son Edward Seymour Earl of Hertford. (fn. 47) Edward received fresh grants of the manor in 1612–13 and 1619–20 (fn. 48) and died in 1621. He was succeeded by his grandson Sir William Seymour, who was created Marquess of Hertford in 1640 and Duke of Somerset in 1660. (fn. 49) He was engaged in litigation respecting this manor with his sister-inlaw Anne Lady Beauchamp, (fn. 50) then wife of Sir Edward Lewis, and died in 1660.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/berks/vol4/pp228-234
NOTE: Spouse and second marriage with family should be considered deleted. It is left as reference. The reader should be aware of what had been documented and what is currently authoritative. JRC 21 Nov 2008
AFN: 8MH9-NS
NAME: Was known as William Carpenter of Wherwell. And of Horwell.
NOTE: William came to America in 1638 in the ship "Bevis" with his son. He returned to England and died there? Per 1898 Book. A carpenter by trade?
HOWEVER . . . The American Genealogist, number 280, Vol. 70, No. 4 October 1995 indicates he died during the voyage to New England in the Bevis or shortly thereafter. While many records profess his return to England, no record has been found to prove this. Gene Zubrinsky of Ojai, CA was the author of this 1995 article.
SEE: E-MAIL from Gene below.
NOTE: Marriage date and children seem to indicate two marriages. First one about 1598? Second in 1605. Yet another record indicates that William married Mary Batt in 1595 at Old Salisbury Parish. The 1605 date was probably for Alice who was buried in Shalbourne. Different Carpenter histories seems to only allow for one marriage, but two seems the case. Many corrections on this line has been made due to newer data being found (like wills, marriages et cetera).
BOOK- GENEALOGY: PER "GENEALOGICAL & FAMILY HISTORY OF WESTERN NEW YORK" LEWIS, 1912: PAGE 1252, 53: ...was born in England in 1576. He came to America with his wife and son William, in the ship "Bevis," in 1638, and returned in the same ship to England. He was a resident of London.
PAGE 1318: ..., third son of William Carpenter, born 1576, was a Carpenter by trade and resided in London. He rented tenements and gardens in Houndsditch. Being a Dissenter, he was driven to Whirwell to escape persecution, and took the opprotunity to join his sons in emigrating to America. He was not contented on this side, however, and returned to England in the ship which brought him.
Carpenter Memorial - Page 34 - "He rented certain tenements and gardens in Houndsditch in 1625 to him devised for forty=one years with a covenant to build within five years, which tenements and gardens were heretofore conveyed to the city's use for the support of the Carpenter Free School by John Carpenter, Town Clerk of London."
SEE NOTE BELOW ON "HOUNDSDICTCH."
BOOK- GENEALOGY: Amos B. Carpenter, A GENEALOGICAL HISTORY OF THE REHOBOTH BRANCH OF THE CARPENTER FAMILY IN AMERICA. Also known as the CARPENTER MEMORIAL. Published 1898 By: Press of Carpenter & Morehouse, Amherst, MA This William's father is listed as William born about 1540 in the CM, but this is wrong. Wills and deeds prove Robert as the father.
SEE: Carpenter Genealogy at:
http://www.newenglandancestors.org/research/database/register/default.asp?vol=9&pg=52
This continues for a few pages. 52-54.
Title page is at:
http://www.newenglandancestors.org/research/database/register/default.asp?vol=9&pg=05
The New England Historical & Genealogical Register and Antiquarian Journal: published quarterly under the direction of the New England Historic- Genealogical Society. Vol. IX No. 1 Published January 1855.
SEE: Also: Carpenter and Allied Families by Miss Annie L. Carpenter, The American Historical Society, Inc., NY, published in 1936. Page 11.
MARR PLACE: Old Salisbury Parish, England.
RESIDENCE: Horwell is the village now known as Wherwell in Hampshire. It appears the family was there only a short time, probably preparing for their voyage to New England.
"A 1607 map of Hampshire clearly shows Horwell in Hampshire as a "hundred" designation, being a subdivision of the whole county. The town itself was designated Shallwell, which it is clearly not on the Bevis list.
This to me at least heightens suspicion we are dealing with Horwell in Berkshire.
THE PHILLIMORE ATLAS AND INDEX OF PARISH REGISTERS contains two maps of Hampshire, one showing the county's parishes, the other its villages and towns. The former depicts Wherwell as a split parish, its two parts separated by the narrow parishes of Upper Clatford and Goodworth Clatford. The latter, "regular" map locates the town/village of Wherwell (same place as the parish) within the Wherwell Hundred.
In neither map does a Shal(l)well appear. I find no such civil or ecclesiastical entity, ancient or recent, in all of England." Gene Zubrinsky 3 Sept 2001.
SEE: THE PHILLIMORE ATLAS AND INDEX OF PARISH REGISTERS
First edition (England only), 1984; 2d, rev. ed. (incl. Wales, Scotland), c1995. The topographical maps are from James Bell's A NEW AND COMPREHENSIVE GAZETTEER OF ENGLAND AND WALES (1834).
MISC: We know that "Marden and Cheriton (Charlton?) Parishes, Wherwell in Wiltshire were Puritan strongholds." Rev. Stephen Bachiler and Richard Dummer (who was on the Bevis in 1638) were actively engaged in persuading religious dissenters to join them in New England with their Plough Company.
This includes a "William Carpenter whose home had several meetings." This is from "Puritian Meeting Notes in Wiltshire" provided by Mr. Keith P. Norris, Hon. Archivist of the The Bourne Valley Historical, Record and Conservation Society (53 Bouverie Avenue / Salisbury / Wiltshire SP2 8DU / England) in a letter dated 17 Feb. 1997.
HISTORY:
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0829007.html
Laud, William, 1573–1645, archbishop of Canterbury (1633–45). He studied at St. John's College, Oxford, and was ordained a priest in 1601. From the beginning Laud showed his hostility to Puritanism. He became president of St. John's College in 1611, dean of Gloucester in 1616, and bishop of London in 1628. Laud thought of the English church as a branch of the universal church, claimed apostolic succession for the bishops, and believed that the Anglican ritual should be strictly followed in all churches. To accomplish these ends, Laud, working closely with Charles I, tried to eliminate Puritans from important positions in the church. As chancellor of Oxford (from 1629) he carried out many reforms, strengthened moral and intellectual discipline, and stamped out Calvinism to make Oxford a royalist stronghold. In 1633, Laud became archbishop of Canterbury and continued on a larger scale his efforts to enforce High Church forms of worship. Through the courts of high commission and Star Chamber he persecuted and imprisoned many nonconformists, such as William Prynne. The tyranny of his courts and his identification of the episcopal form of church government with the absolutism of Charles brought about violent opposition not only from the Puritans but also from those who were jealous of the rights of Parliament. Supporting Charles and the earl of Strafford to the end, Laud was impeached (1640) by the Long Parliament. Found not guilty of treason by the House of Lords (1644), he was condemned to death by the Commons through a bill of attainder.
See biographies by A. Duncan-Jones (1927) and H. Trevor-Roper (2d ed. 1962).
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0817372.html
English civil war, 1642–48, the conflict between King Charles I of England and a large body of his subjects, generally called the “parliamentarians,” that culminated in the defeat and execution of the king and the establishment of a republican commonwealth.
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0857994.html
The struggle (ENGLISH CIVIL WAR) has also been called the Puritan Revolution because the religious complexion of the king's opponents was prevailingly Puritan, and because the defeat of the king was accompanied by the abolition of episcopacy. That name, however, overemphasizes the religious element at the expense of the constitutional issues and the underlying social and economic factors. Most simply stated, the constitutional issue was one between a king who claimed to rule by divine right and a Parliament that professed itself to have rights and privileges independent of the crown and that ultimately, by its actions, claimed real sovereignty.
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0846872.html
Strafford, Thomas Wentworth, 1st earl of (Straford)
Strafford, Thomas Wentworth, 1st earl of, 1593–1641, English statesman. Regularly elected to Parliament from 1614 on, he became one of the critics of George Villiers, 1st duke of Buckingham, and of the war with Spain. Charles I made him sheriff of Yorkshire in order to exclude him from the Parliament of 1626, but Wentworth continued his opposition and was imprisoned (1627) for refusing to pay the forced loan. In the Parliament of 1628 he advocated a moderate version of the Petition of Right, but when Sir John Eliot and Sir Edward Coke succeeded in carrying their more severe form of the petition, he lost influence. At this point Charles sought his adherence by creating him baron and viscount and president of the council of the north (1628), and Wentworth realigned himself as a firm supporter of royal prerogative. With William Laud, Wentworth evolved the policy known as “Thorough” to achieve an absolutist but just and efficient regime. As lord deputy of Ireland (1632–40) he systematically applied this policy. He cleared the sea of pirates, bolstered trade and industry (always with an eye to England's interest), began a reorganization of the church in Ireland, and enforced reforms in financial administration that doubled the state's revenue. However, his methods were ruthlessly despotic, and he aroused even more fear and hatred. After Charles I's humiliation by the Scots in the first Bishops' War, Wentworth was recalled (1639) to England to become the king's chief adviser. Created earl of Strafford in 1640...
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0857997.html
The First (ENGLISH) Civil War
The followers of king and Parliament did not represent two absolutely distinct social groups, as the popular conception of the royalist Cavaliers and the parliamentary Roundheads would indicate. However, it is true that the parliamentary, or Puritan, group drew much of its strength from the gentry and from the merchant classes and artisans of London, Norwich, Hull, Plymouth, and Gloucester; it centered in the southeastern counties and had control of the fleet. The majority of the great nobles followed the king, who had the support of most Anglicans and Roman Catholics; geographically the royalist strength centered in the north and west.
The first major engagement of the armies at Edgehill (Oct. 23, 1642) was a drawn battle. Charles then established himself at Oxford. The royalist forces gained ground in the north and west, although repeated attempts by the king to advance on London proved abortive. The indecisive engagements of 1643 were remarkable mainly for the emergence of Oliver Cromwell, an inconspicuous member of the Long Parliament, to military prominence with his own regiment of “godly” men, soon to become famous as the Ironsides.
SEE ALSO:
http://65.107.211.206/religion/puritan.html
E-MAIL: Subject: [CARPENTER] Newbury
Date: Tue, 23 May 2001
From: "Bruce E. Carpenter"
I was doing a bit of USA Carpenter reading and digging and discovered that many of the people on the Bevis with the Carpenters, as well as those on the the other ship, embarked for or at Newbury Massachusetts, which was intended as a cattle and sheep raising project by the Bailly, Dummer families and others. The project seemed a one that recruited northan Wilts/Berks people who had husbandry skills.
It is odd that the Carpenters came over with these people (Batts etc.) but chose Weymouth rather than Newbury. When I looked at the type of animals that were being imported to Newbury, sheep seemed the greater number.
The Massachusetts Newbury was named after the English Berks Newbury. The Carpenters were there from the mid to late 1400s. It was a prominent sheep/wool/ cloth town. Shalbourne was basically a satellite of Newbury.
I think this would be an interesting family research topic for someone.
BC
E-MAIL: Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 From: GeneZub@aol.com To: jrcrin001@cox.com
Dear John,
As author of the 1995 TAG article about William Carpenter of Rehoboth and his family, I'm very familiar with the facts pertaining to some of the persons mentioned in your online Carpenter compilation, which I recently viewed for the first time.
Knowing how deep can be one's personal investment in a project such as yours, I hope you won't be offended by the attached corrections (all with primary-source citations) and remarks. I should warn you that I find many
items to correct and, in my "General Remarks" (at the end), am critical of certain patterns evident in your basic approach. If there were a "nicer" way to express the necessary criticisms, I hope I would have found it.
I also hope this initiates a friendly and useful correspondence. Sincerely, Gene Zubrinsky
E-MAIL: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 From: GeneZub@aol.com
Gene Zubrinsky of Ojai, Calif. provided the following insights:
As with his son, William2 of Rehoboth, this man's birth year is approximate, based on his age, 62, as re-ported on the Bevis passenger list, dated 2 May 1638. To avert the impression that a (sic 1576) 1676 birth year is certain, it should be preceded by ca. or about.
If you insist on using the Bevis passenger list's spelling of his last English residence, you can avert confu-sion by rendering it thus: "Horwell [sic, Wherwell]." This is a moot point, however, since there is no evidence whatsoever that William or his family had ever lived at Wherwell until shortly before emigrating, in 1638. It appears that he had not been at Shalbourne as long as his son, who married there in 1625, but longer than at Wherwell (see TAG, 70:194). Previous to perhaps 1634, his whereabouts are unknown (ibid.). If he was in fact the son of Robert of Marden (which has not been proved), his birthplace may have been there. Since William's stay at Wherwell was so short, it might be more appropriate to refer to him as William of Shalbourne.
What is the evidence of his being from Dilwyn? I am aware only of unsubstantiated secondary-source pronouncements. If christened there, what was the date and what identifies him as the correct William Carpenter? "In 1921, by a copy from the records of the Parish of Dilwyn, Hereford, of all the Carpenter entries back to 1559, it is conclusively proven that no William Carpenter was born there in 1576 … ." (Herbert F. Seversmith, Colonial Families of Long Island, New York, and Connecticut, 5 vols. [Washing-ton, D.C., 1939-58], 2:570, quoting J[oseph] Hatton Carpenter, "The Carpenter Family of England and the United States," Utah Genealogical and Historical Magazine, Vol. 16 [1925]).
While there is no record of this man after his appearance on the 1638 Bevis passenger list, to say that he died that year is highly speculative. That he fails to appear in Weymouth or Mass. Bay Colony records—as does his son, as early as 1640—does not to constitute evidence of his having died by then. We may assume only that if he had died after 1643, his burial record would probably have been entered in Rehoboth Vital Records, which begin the next year—particularly since his son was then the town clerk. If I had it to do over, I would revise my statement that "he died probably during the voyage or shortly after his arrival in New England" to read, "he died probably either during the voyage or at or near Weymouth, before 1644" (see TAG 70:203).
There is (1) no basis for saying where or when William married, (2) only scant circumstantial evidence suggesting that the Alice Carpenter buried at Shalbourne in 1637[/8] was his wife, and (3) none whatsoever that she was the mother of his children (which is not to say she was not). You give unwarranted certainty to my remarks as to the possibility that the Alice Carpenter buried at Shalbourne three months before William1's emigration was his wife "(though not necessarily William2's mother)" (see TAG 70:194-95).
All Carpenter ancestry beyond this point is strictly conjecture and has no business being presented as anything more.
Notes for 2048. William Carpenter of Wherwell
<< NOTE: William came to America in 1638 in the ship "Bevis" with his son. He returned to England and died there. Per 1898 Book. A carpenter by trade? HOWEVER . . . The American Genealogist, number 280, Vol. 70, No. 4 October 1995 indicates he died during the voyage to New England in the Bevis or shortly thereafter. While many records profess his return to England, no record has been found to prove this. >>
He could have died as late as 1643 (see above).
<< NOTE: Marriage date and children seem to indicate two marriages. First one about 1598? Second in 1605. Yet another record indicates that William married Mary Batt in 1595 at Old Salisbury Parish. The 1605 date was probably for Alice who was buried in Shalbourne. Different Carpenter histories seems to only allow for one marriage, but two seems the case. Many corrections on this line has been made due to newer data being found (like wills, marriages et cetera). >>
This passage is full of speculations and lacks internal consistency.
What marriage date? None is known.
What children? His only known child is William of Rehoboth (no. 1024).
The William Carpenter – Mary Batt marriage occurred at St. Thomas the Martyr, Salisbury, 18 April 1605 ("Marriages at Salisbury, St. Thomas, 1570-1812," in W. P. W. Phillimore, ed., Wiltshire Parish Registers, Marriages, vol. 5 [London, 1907], pp. 1-134 at – [sorry]; FHL film #496691, item 4). Although a Christo-pher Batt was a fellow passenger of the Carpenters on the Bevis in 1638, Batt family records indicate that he and Mary "would be no more than distant cousins" (NEHG Register 14[1860]: 336; David Kendall Martin, FASG, citing NEHG Register, Vol. 51 [1897], in letter to me, dated 16 March 1998). While the possibility remains that William of Shalbourne and Wherwell was the man who wed Mary Batt, there is no evidence to confirm it—none.
What 1605 date? The only documented 1605 marriage date of possible relevance is that of the Carpenter-Batt marriage at Salisbury. How, then, does Alice come to be William's wife that year? As to her ever having been William's wife, see the previous page.
<< BOOK- GENEALOGY: PER "GENEALOGICAL & FAMILY HISTORY OF WESTERN NEW YORK" LEWIS, 1912: PAGE 1252, 53: ...was born in England in 1576. He came to America with his wife and son William, in the ship "Bevis," in 1638, and returned in the same ship to England. He was a resident of London. PAGE 1318: ..., third son of William Carpenter, born 1576, was a Carpenter by trade and resided in London. He rented tenements and gardens in Houndsditch. Being a Dissenter, he was driven to Whirwell to escape persecution, and took the opprotunity to join his sons in emigrating to America. He was not contented on this side, however, and returned to England in the ship which brought him. >>
So much of this is wrong or speculative that its retention can only serve to confuse.
<< BOOK- GENEALOGY: Amos B. Carpenter, A GENEALOGICAL HISTORY OF THE REHOBOTH BRANCH OF THE CARPENTER FAMILY IN AMERICA. Also known as the CARPENTER MEMOR-IAL. Published 1898 By: Press of Carpenter & Morehouse, Amherst, MA This William's father is listed as William born about 1540 in the CM, but this is wrong. Wills and deeds prove Robert as the father. >>
In that Amos B. Carpenter is wrong on this, why retain it?
While Amos Carpenter's contention that this William's father was a London carpenter (small c) has been refuted, it is simply not true that "wills and deeds prove Robert as the father." Nothing has been proved. The will of Robert of Marden raises only the possibility that this William was his son. Geographic prox-imity (of Marden, Amesbury, Shalbourne, and Wherwell) and matching names (William and Richard Carpenter are hardly distinctive) do not begin to constitute adequate evidence. Robert's will "proves" only that he had sons named William and Richard. It does not prove that they were the respective fathers of William of Rehoboth and William of Providence/Pawtuxet, nor am I aware of anything that does. As I am repeatedly moved to ask, "Where's the proof?"
When Robert died, his son Richard inherited a half-interest in the residue of his estate ("movable and unmovable"), which may or may not have included land (it is never mentioned) (Prerogative Court of Canterbury, Registered Wills, Huddleston, Vol. 109 [1607], folio 42 [FHL film #92029]). He presumably received the remainder upon the death of Robert's widow, Elinor (see ibid.). While it is always possible that, before their deaths, Robert and/or Elinor sold land to one or more of Robert's sons (it is not certain that Elinor was their mother), early English land records are far scarcer than probate records. Moreover, Robert's will refers to him as "husbandman." Whereas a yeoman was a farmer who worked his own land, a husbandman (narrowly defined) was a tenant farmer. Can you identify a deed that bears on this matter?
<< MARR PLACE: Old Salisbury Parish, England. >>
There were four Anglican churches in Salisbury Parish in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. The one at which the marriage of William Carpenter (whoever he may have been) and Mary Batt occurred was St. Thomas the Martyr (see previous page). But as to this William, the identity of his wife/wives—let alone the date(s) and place(s) of his marriage(s)—is unknown. If Alice was in fact William's wife (it is only a possibility), there is no basis whatsoever for giving Salisbury as their place of marriage.
<< MISC: Marden and Cheriton Parishes, Wherwell in Wiltshire were Puritan strongholds. Rev. Stephen Bachiler and Richard Dummer (who was on the Bevis in 1638) were actively engaged in persuading religious dissenters to join them in New England with their Plough Company. This includes William Carpenter. >>
There is no Cheriton Parish in Wiltshire. Perhaps you mean Charlton, which is near Marden.
Wherwell—in Hampshire, not Wiltshire—was certainly a Puritan stronghold. What, please, is your source for saying that Marden and Cheriton (sic, Charleton) were also?
To declare that "[t]his includes William Carpenter" is pure speculation.
More E-Mail:
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 3:05 PM
Subject: [CARPENTER] Re: 'equally unconfirmed assertions'
> << That William Carpenter of Rehoboth lived in Berkshire was demonstrated by
> Gene Zubrinsky ... >>
> The parish of Shalbourne--Rehoboth William's home from at least 1625 to 1637
> or early 1638--straddled the Berkshire-Wiltshire line. The Shalbourne church
> seems to have been situated in the Berkshire part of the parish but was
> nevertheless under the jurisdiction of the dean and chapter of the cathedral
> church at New Sarum (Salisbury, Wiltshire). The part of Shalbourne
> (Berkshire or Wiltshire) in which Rehoboth William lived is unknown.
> Moreover, Shalbourne was only about three miles from the Hampshire border.
> It is therefore inappropriate to associate Rehoboth William's Shalbourne
> residence more with Berkshire than with Wiltshire or Hampshire.
>
> << That William Carpenter [bap. Great Coxwell, 5 May 1576] is the William
> aged 62 listed on the Bevis manifest bound for Massachusetts is again
> inference. >>
>
> That the baptismal year corresponds with William1's reported age in 1638 is
> not sufficient to infer that it was his baptism. There is presently no
> corroborative evidence; without it, we have nothing more than a titillating
> pair of items that raise a POSSIBILITY. Moreover, while we can't ignore
> William1's reported age in 1638, neither can we assume that it's accurate:
> When on 2 May 1638 the age of William1's daughter-in-law, Abigail (Briant)
> Carpenter (bap. Shalbourne, 27 May 1604), was recorded on the same BEVIS
> manifest as 32, she was actually 34 or only days from being so.
>
> << An inference is drawn that Robert Carpenter of Locking, the father of
> Robert c. 1550, is the brother of Henry Carpenter. This inference is by
> dates and geographical place. >>
>
> The bases for this inference and the remaining ones seem even more tenuous
> than the one pertaining to William1.
>
> In sum, we are again presented with a series of speculations (I'll even
> accept "working hypotheses"), euphemistically labeled as inferences. To have
> trumpeted them as providing the "nearly certain" ancestry of Rehoboth William
> was irresponsible--again. (Bruce, I really don't mean to be uncivil, but I
> simply don't know another way to say it.)
>
> Gene Z
POSSIBLE:
NOTE: Corsley, Wiltshire, England is 3 miles NW of Warminster in Wiltshire.
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?pc=BA127QE&scale=200000
http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=917550&queryType=1&resultcount=4
WILL: Image details (PROVED - NOT TO BE RELATED TO THIS WILLIAM!)
Description Will of William Carpenter, Husbandman of Corsley, Wiltshire
Date 18 November 1639
Catalogue reference PROB 11/181
Dept Records of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury
Series Prerogative Court of Canterbury and related Probate Jurisdictions: Will Registers
Piece Name of Register: Harvey Quire Numbers: 136 - 202
Image contains 1 will of many for the catalogue reference
Number of image files: 1
Image Reference Format and Version Part Number Size (KB) Number of Pages Price (£)
506 / 462 PDF 1.2 1 706 2 3.50
Total Price (£) 3.50
From: GeneZub@aol.com
To: johnrcarpenter@cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 4:10 PM
Subject: Will Abstract
John,
I hope you'll forgive my not doing a complete, word-for-word transcription of the will, but I think the abstract below is sufficient to show that no connection with Carpenter immigrants is evident.
Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 181 Harvey (1639): WILLIAM CARPENTER of Cheapmanslade, parish of Costley [sic], Wiltshire, husbandman; will dated 9 April 1639 and proved 18 November 1639. (The village of Chapmanslade is a mile or two north of the village of Corsley; the parish of Corsley undoubtedly included both villages.) Legatees: ROBERT CARPENTER, brother, one score of "Chilverhogge" (young sheep); ELIZABETH WEAVELL, unnamed sister's daughter, £5; JUDETH WEVELL [sic], unnamed sister's daughter, £8; ELIZABETH CARPENTER, sister, £3; ELIZABETH CARPENTER, brother Robert's daughter, "[T?]enn Cupple of Ewes & Lambes"; two UNNAMED daughters of brother Robert, "five Cupples of Ewes & Lambes apeece"; THOMAS CARPENTER, son of brother Thomas, £10; MARGARET BUTTON, £10; RICHARD BUTTON, 4-5 yards of medley cloth (woven with wools of different colors or shades); ELLINOR BENDOLE, daughter of George Bendole, two "weatherhogge" (male sheep before their first shearing); "Jone" [Joanne in probate section] Button, widow, two "milch keene" (milk cows) and one score of weatherhogs (see above); THOMAS CARPENTER, brother, remainder of estate (as described in memorandum section, nuncupative codicil leaves him "only Tenn poundes"). Executor: Thomas Carpenter, brother; aforementioned codicil replaces brother Thomas as executor with "Jone" Button as executrix. Overseers: ROBERT REYMELL (Rymell was a Wiltshire surname) and THOMAS HEYERS [sic (Ayers?)] alias SYMMENTE (Scottish-surname variant: also Symmand, Symmane, Symmant, Symmen, Symmend, Symment) "my faithfull frende [probably plural]." Debtors: WILLIAM HOLLOWAY, £24 plus interest; Robert Reymell, £20.
Gene
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
HOUNDSDITCH: Houndsditch info ...
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=3379
Carpenter's Yard, Houndsditch
See Hanover Court.
From: British History Online
Source: Carpenter's Yard, Houndsditch. A Dictionary of London, Henry H Harben (1918).
URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=3379
Date: 17/11/2004
© Copyright 2003 University of London & History of Parliament Trust
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=3243
Hanover Court
South-west out of Houndsditch, at No. 3. In Portsoken Ward (P.O. Directory).
Former names : "Carpenter's Yard" (L. and P. Chas. II. Dom. S. 1666-7, p. 426-P.C. 1732). "Seven Star Alley" (Strype, ed. 1720, I. ii. 27). "Hannover Court" (Rocque, 1746).
It seems to have been called "Hanover Court" since 1732, in Parish Clerk's Survey.
Strype describes the houses as having gardens to them, and says there was a Calendar in the alley, shut off from the rest of the houses by great gates. Perhaps so named in honour of the reigning sovereigns, Electors of Hanover.
From: British History Online
Source: Hanover Court. A Dictionary of London, Henry H Harben (1918).
URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=3243
Date: 17/11/2004
© Copyright 2003 University of London & History of Parliament Trust
Carpenter's Yard - There are many notations and locations where workers in wood - Carpenters - used various yards to store material and became known as a "Carpenters Yard." The next one is a bit different.
Carpenter's Yard
Four tenements and a place lately called a "Carpynters Yerd in parish of St. Peter Cornhill, in the Ward of Lymstrete, 3 Ed. VI. 1549 (Lond. I. p.m. I. 80 and 105).
Not further identified.
From: British History Online
Source: Carpenter's Yard. A Dictionary of London, Henry H Harben (1918).
URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=4964
Date: 17/11/2004
© Copyright 2003 University of London & History of Parliament Trust.
NOTE: This is not to be confused with "Carpenters Hall Yard" which is in a different location.
Houndsditch
West from Nos. 4 and 5 Aldgate High Street to No. 126 Bishopsgate (P.O. Directory). In Portsoken Ward and Bishopsgate Ward Without.
This is the extent of the present street of this name, but in former times it was the name given to the City Ditch surrounding the wall from the Tower to the Fleet and especially to that part of it extending from Newgate to Cripplegate.
First mention : "Hondesdich," 1282 (Ct. H.W. I. 58). "Hundesdiche," 1304 (Cal. L. Bk. B. p. 141). "Houndesditch," 1315 (H. MSS. Com. 9th Rep. p. 8).
This City Ditch was commenced about 1213 (Ann. de Berm.) under date 1211 in Ann. de Dunstaplia, but recent excavations have shown that there was previously to this date a ditch round the City made by the Romans as part of the fortifications, which had in course of time become filled up and obliterated. This ditch has been laid open and examined at Christ's Hospital, at Aldersgate, New Broad Street, and at America Square, and the remains suggest that in later times they constructed a second and wider ditch for defensive purposes, about 75 ft. in width. Considerable portions were obliterated in later times by the construction of the medieval City Ditch. An excellent account of the remains and excavations is contained in Arch. Vols. LX. and LXIII.
The Danes under Cnut dug a ditch round the City in 1016, so that no one could go in or out (A.S. Chron. Earle and Plummer, p. 22).
The City Ditch was sometimes also called the "Town Ditch" (q.v.).
Houses were soon erected on the bank of the City Ditch, and it became a receptacle for a good deal of filth and rubbish, so that it constantly had to be cleansed and scoured. By Stow's time it had become completely filled up in this way, constituting a grave danger to the health of the City.
Writ of Privy Seal issued to the Mayor and Sheriffs, 28 Ed. III., directing them to cleanse the Town Ditch (Cal. L. Bk. G. p. 27). Cleansed 16 Ed. IV.
In 1595 the question of properly stopping it up and levelling the ground was seriously considered and arguments adduced in favour of this course, such as :
The saving of the expenses of cleansing that would be effected thereby.
Avoidance of a source of infection.
The conversion of the ground into gardens and walks for the citizens (L. and P. Ed. VI. and Eliz., IV. 45).
These improvements seem to have been carried out within a few years, according to Stow's description (S. 130).
The street was first paved about 1503.
Stow says the street known as Barbican was formerly called Houndesditch, but it seems to lie too far north from the line of the ditch.
Stow suggests that the name was derived from filth and dead dogs thrown into the ditch, and this may be correct if, as is most probable, the name grew up by degrees and was only generally adopted after the lapse of time (p. 129).
Another derivation suggested is "Hunes-dic," as being a defence raised against the "Huns," or alien population of the forests and marshes round the capital. But this presupposes an early form "Hunes," for which there does not appear to be any authority, the earliest form of the name being, as shown above, "Houndesdich."
Moreover the ditch does not appear to have been called by this name until after its reconstruction in the 13th century.
It is difficult to suggest any satisfactory derivation of the name, as in early times it seems to have been spoken of as "the ditch" only, or the "City Ditch," and not to have had any other distinctive appellation.
Behind Nos. 58 and 60, remains of the Roman Wall were found cased up between other walls, the top being 71/2 feet above the level of the street. The depth of the City Ditch here was at 18 feet, being at a distance of about 60 feet from the wall.
From: British History Online
Source: Houndsditch. A Dictionary of London, Henry H Harben (1918).
URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=4740
Date: 17/11/2004
© Copyright 2003 University of London & History of Parliament Trust.
SUMMARY of Houndsditch search:
I tried to determine if such info could be verified. I found out that the Carpenters Company (related to the occupation) was a Guild that had extensive membership records back into the 1500s. If so "Master Carpenter William Carpenter" should have been listed on such Guild lists if he was building in London. JRC
Carpenter’s Company
http://www.thecarpenterscompany.co.uk/
One of the City of London's oldest livery companies, the existence of the Carpenters' Company is recorded as early as 1333.
...
The Company archive comprises an almost unbroken series of records from the fifteenth century to the present day, documenting the long history of the Company.
The archives of the Carpenters' Company are divided between Carpenters' Hall and the Guildhall Library Manuscript section.
Click here for details of access to archives at the Guildhall Library.
Access to the archives at Carpenters' Hall is at the Company's discretion. A research service is provided for general and genealogical enquiries.
The earliest surviving Company document in the Company's ownership is the Warden's Accounts volume dating from 1438. There are two existing earlier documents relating to the Company: Ordinances of the Brotherhood of Carpenters of 1333, in the form of a return to a writ of Richard II, 1388 and held at the National Archives, and Bible Extracts of c.1250, which may have been acquired at any time between the thirteenth and sixteenth centuries.
...
Based upon the search they did, no reference to a William Carpenter could be found with the Carpenters' Company. See next.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
From: Guildhall, Manuscripts
To: 'johnrcarpenter@cox.net'
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:07 AM
Subject: Dec14(MP)
Dear Mr Carpenter,
Thank you for your email of 13 December 2004 which has been passed to us in the Manuscripts Section as we hold the records of the Carpenters' Company.
A search has been made of the alphabetical list of freemen of the Carpenters' Company (Guildhall Library Ms 21742/1) but I regret that no reference to William Carpenter could be found. This index covers freemen from the 16th century.
A further search of our catalogues also failed to reveal any reference to William Carpenter.
We do not charge for our enquiry services. However, we have a Special Purchases Fund to buy items we could not otherwise afford. Contributions to this (payable to the Chamberlain of London) would be most welcome. Sterling cheques or sterling drafts drawn on London are much preferred to cash or cheques in foreign currency. We only acknowledge donations of £10 sterling or more; please state if you do not wish to receive an acknowledgement.
Yours sincerely,
Stephen Freeth
Keeper of Manuscripts
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
MISC:
Name: William Carpenter
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 05 May 1576
Baptism/Christening Place: GREAT COXWELL,BERKSHIRE,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Henrie Carpenter
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01895-2
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 88267
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Joane Carpenter
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 02 Nov 1562
Baptism/Christening Place: GREAT COXWELL,BERKSHIRE,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Henrie Carpenter
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01895-2
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 88267
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
MISC:
MARRIAGE:
England Marriages, 1538–1973
Groom's Name: William Carpenter
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Alice Swithen
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 1604
Marriage Place: Saint Denys, Warminster, Wiltshire, England
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M15334-2
System Origin: England-VR
Source Film Number: 1279363
Reference Number: 2:RGCX23
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
DEATH RATIONAL AND PLACE - asked by Geni members
Regarding:
Death: after May 12, 1638
At sea, or perhaps of, Weymouth, Norfolk County, Massachusetts Bay Colony, Colonial America (at sea or shortly after arrival)
https://www.geni.com/people/William-of-the-Bevis-Carpenter/6000000010505544881
The death place is a bit awkward. When when look a statistical odds his returning to England after settling his only known family is very very low. It just was not done back then.For 99% of the passengers it was a one way trip.
The probability of a 62 year old surviving such a voyage is quite good and the probability exceeds 92%. This partly based on studies done on immigrants of that time period. With no evidence contrary he likely survived and arrived in Weymouth.
Eugene Cole "Gene" Zubrinsky, FASG in his Carpenter Sketches and specifically the article on this William Carpenter (Wm1_Shalbourne - http://carpentercousins.com/Wm1_Shalbourne.pdf) comes to the same conclusion but explains it briefly in his opening paragraph and in more detail in his IMMIGRATION section.
Gene writes the following to the place of his possible death...
DEATH: The latest known record of William1 is the aforementioned Bevis passenger-list
entry of 2 May 1638. His namesake son, William2 Carpenter, settled at Weymouth probably
in 1638 and certainly before 13 May 1640, when he was admitted a freeman there.
That William1 was not also made a freeman at this time was probably due either to his
having died or to his station, which was modest when considered apart from his son’s
(see TAG 14:336, 70:193, 195n13; EDUCATION/OFFICES, below).
Based on the above one can safely assume William1 (62 years old in 1638) likely died sometime between June 1638 and May 1640 probably in Weymouth, Massachusetts Bay Colony.
There is less likelihood of him surviving past the 60-65 year life expectancy of the time. But if he did live into the 1640s, he may have been able to travel Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony with the family.
Sadly there is no documentation regarding anything about him in the colonies.
Based on the above, I would list his death as about 1638/1640 probably in, Weymouth, Massachusetts Bay Colony, now, Weymouth, Norfolk, Massachusetts, USA. I would also add something in your notes regarding how such info was arrived at.
For more on the 12 Carpenter Sketches, please see: http://carpentercousins.com/carplink.htm
I hope this helps.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA USA
http://carpentercousins.com
PS - In case you are interested, I cleaned up the Wikipedia article on the Bevis. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bevis_(ship)
From: Gene Zubrinsky
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2018 5:08 PM
To: John R Carpenter
Cc: John F. Chandler ; Terry Carpenter
Subject: Re: William Carpenter-98 (b. abt 1575 England - d. 1638/1640 Weymouth) - Bevis and death info
John,
In your message to Geni.com, you (presumably inadvertently) gave William1’s date of death as “after May 12, 1638.” While I assume you had intended May 2 (the date of the Bevis passenger list), Geni.com’s revision has May 12.
Since the Bevis passenger list was created when the ship had been “some Dayes gone to sea," the first paragraph of my William1 Carpenter sketch
(http://carpentercousins.com/Wm1_Shalbourne.pdf hyper link added)
says that he “was still living a few days before 2 May 1638,” and that "he died probably at Weymouth, Massachusetts Bay Colony, or Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony.” Your statement—that he died “at sea, or perhaps of Weymouth . . . (at sea or shortly after arrival)”—inappropriately gives equal if not more weight to the died-at-sea alternative. It is nevertheless what now appears on the Geni page for William Carpenter of Shalbourne (1576 - 1638).
(https://www.geni.com/people/William-of-the-Bevis-Carpenter/60000000... hyper link copied)
It’s not certain that William1’s failure to be made a freeman along with William2, on 13 May 1640, was due to the death of the former man: he had left England an unimportant old man. It is therefore pure speculation to describe his death as having occurred “shortly after arrival” or "between June 1638 and May 1640.” In my view, the only prudent manner in which to present William1’s death data is as quoted above from the first paragraph of his sketch.
While, as you say, the IMMIGRATION section of the William1 sketch provides additional detail, the RESIDENCES section provides more still. The following passage is of particular relevance:
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence: considering his age (advanced), marital status (presumably widower), and position in his family (almost certainly subordinate to his son), it is not significant that William1 fails to appear in Massachusetts records as a freeholder or town officer, for example. And with deaths at this time being the vital event least often recorded, it is unremarkable that no such record is found for him. (Also unrecorded is the birth, probably in late 1638, of his grandson Samuel3.)
I would be grateful if you would forward this message to Erica Howton and anyone else to whom you had sent your previous advisory. Also for their information: the William1 sketch’s most recent revision (on 4 April 2018) discusses the possibility (tending toward unlikely) that his wife was Alice Swithen (see pp. 2–3). Thanks.
Gene
reply
Hello,
I sent an update what I gave to you earlier to Gene Zubrinsky. He provided a follow up and clarifications. I provide my comment and his follow up below to yesterday's message.
Gene,
My summary and suggestion was ... I would list his death as about 1638/1640 probably in, Weymouth, Massachusetts Bay Colony, now, Weymouth, Norfolk, Massachusetts, USA.
No ifs ands or buts, the 2 May 1638 date reflects the date of the passenger list. And it is logical to assume he died after that date. Your statement of his possible death as after 2 May 1638 was cited and you indicate it being as being most prudent.
And 12 May 1638 reflects when the cargo or “goods” were loaded on 12 May 1638. Some give 16 May 1638 for the date of sailing but I see no proof given for that. Assuming that there was no change in the passenger list or any deaths between 2 and 12 May 1638 then the later date could be used, but only with proper clarification. And being less cautious or prudent.
Regardless which date is used, I encouraged them to modify the date without a modifier. They did so by adding the critical word after.
And yes, I should have cited the RESIDENCE section of the related Carpenter Sketch. Because it is the combination of all cited that provides the best information.
I will pass this and your message onward.
I appreciate the elucidation.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA USA
Carpenter Cousins Project
http://carpentercousins.com
4.
Tomazin Carpenter
5.
Ralph Carpenter